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lunabee34she should bring an excuse tomorrow. How do you think "Watching Civil War in lieu of your busy work" would go over? LOL
I really liked this movie. Although I liked many things about Age of Ultron, I had problems with the pacing, and it wasn't as tight and cohesive a movie as The Avengers. I think Civil War is much better than Age of Ultron, on par with The Avengers and the other Captain America movies.
I think what I like most about the movie is that the central conflict is one that I can't solve from the arm chair. I see pros and cons for both decisions, and I don't know what I would think is right if I were in that world.
On Steve's side, I completely understand his reluctance to sign these Accords. In the MCU, government is so often corrupt. He is absolutely right that they would be used to further political agendas, that at some point they'd be sent to do something they (or at least some of them) disagreed with or not allowed to do something they felt important. Time is also a factor. If the big bad falls through a portal over New York City, how long will the UN take to green light their participation? I also think Ross (who is not General Ross of Hulk back story fame, right? or is it the same character?) talking about Thor and Banner as if they are misplaced weapons, as if they are dangerous items rather than sentient beings, was a hot button point for him. Because if Thor is just a misplaced nuke, if Banner is just a misplaced nuke, then what is Steve? What is Tony? What are the rest of them? Weapons, not people. Commodities.
And yet, I see Tony's side as well. If I were an average citizen or a government official anywhere in the world, the idea of people with seemingly unlimited resources and power and abilities would be extremely frightening. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Just because we the viewer know that Steve is a good guy and Vision is a good guy and Clint is a good guy does not mean Average Jane and Joe can trust that. Plus, Steve's insistence that the Avengers, and he in particular, are the moral compass is, frankly, bullshit. Steve has the luxury of never being possessed or mind controlled and never making the wrong decision; he's just one uninterrupted and glorious lifetime of loyalty and courage and doing the right thing. Yet he's one intimate adventure with Loki's spear away from betraying everything he believes in. Tony knows that he's just one ego-trip away from destroying the world because that almost happened last movie. The Avengers shouldn't be allowed to operate with impunity.
I felt really badly for Tony in this movie because it's really about the dissolution of his family. He lost his parents when he was young (rock on the bb!RDJ CGI). He's lost Pepper, and now he's lost the family he so painstakingly built. MCU Tony and Steve are apparently more antagonistic than they are in the comics; they've never been BFF onscreen. So I loved it when Tony said that he wants to punch Cap in his perfect teeth sometimes but he also wants him to stay. Tony and Steve don't always get along, but Steve matters to Tony. They're family. A very important member of his family, Rhodey, is also injured in the movie, and Tony feels a great deal of guilt for that even though Rhodey doesn't blame him.
I think the villain in this movie is the most diabolical of all the villains we've seen so far because he doesn't want to rule the world, he doesn't want power or wealth. He wants vengeance. He wants the impossible: he wants to hurt the people who hurt him enough to make up for the loss of his family. And when he turns the Avengers against each other, and it's so heart wrenching to watch. That's why I find the theme of vengeance, both being consumed by it and deliberately turning away from it, so compelling. Black Panther's choice not to be consumed by his need for revenge was one of the best moments of the movie for me.
I have a theory about why Tony brings Spidey (the most painfully young Spidey we've seen onscreen so far, too) to the fight. (And I will refrain from mentioning how sad I am that America did not take to Andrew Garfield as Spidey because he was my platonic ideal of Spider Man.) None of them really want to hurt each other. Clint and Natasha are fighting, but they're not going to kill each other; that's clear. Sam and Rhodey are on opposite sides, but the second Sam realizes Rhodey is hit, he hightails it over there to try and catch him. The stakes are high, and they're doing damage, but nobody wants to kill anybody except Black Panther. I think Tony brings Spidey in as a legitimate player but also as a kind of reality check: Hey, I brought a kid! Please, remember how we don't want to kill each other!
I liked Bucky and Steve's relationship in the movie. I like that Bucky clearly wasn't drooling and needing Steve to feed him applesauce or referring to himself in third person as The Asset. Bucky's doing his thing and living a life and he's a bit fuzzy on the details but he doesn't need a higher level of care than my three year old. I love that the two of them are it for each other; to the end of the line, indeed. And I think Bucky's decision to go on ice was for the best. He knows who he is now; he knows how precarious his control over himself is (because vengeful dudes are assholes), and he doesn't want to hurt anyone else.
In random notes of glee, I loved every second of Ant Man and Spidey's battle prattle. Natasha was exquisitely beautiful the entire movie as was Wanda. Vision's obvious crush on Wanda was awesome. Everything about Black Panther rocked (awesome costume). Natasha letting Steve and Bucky leave was awesome. Sam is kinda becoming my favorite.
I miss Pepper. I miss Bruce. I miss Jane and Darcy and Thor. And Coulson (surely the ball's gotta drop on that soon, yes?). But this was an excellent, excellent movie.
Here's the fic I want to read: (I don't really think this is in character for them, but I want to read it anyway.) When handed the Accords, the Avengers as a unit say, "Okey dokey. We're off to Asgard. Y'all handle this shit." And maybe Tony gives a speech about how there's eight other realms to defend, and they go take care of business elsewhere for a few years and leave Earth to defend herself. And maybe Earth begs them back, maybe not. IDK Just a hankering. Lemme know if you see anything like that.
I really liked this movie. Although I liked many things about Age of Ultron, I had problems with the pacing, and it wasn't as tight and cohesive a movie as The Avengers. I think Civil War is much better than Age of Ultron, on par with The Avengers and the other Captain America movies.
I think what I like most about the movie is that the central conflict is one that I can't solve from the arm chair. I see pros and cons for both decisions, and I don't know what I would think is right if I were in that world.
On Steve's side, I completely understand his reluctance to sign these Accords. In the MCU, government is so often corrupt. He is absolutely right that they would be used to further political agendas, that at some point they'd be sent to do something they (or at least some of them) disagreed with or not allowed to do something they felt important. Time is also a factor. If the big bad falls through a portal over New York City, how long will the UN take to green light their participation? I also think Ross (who is not General Ross of Hulk back story fame, right? or is it the same character?) talking about Thor and Banner as if they are misplaced weapons, as if they are dangerous items rather than sentient beings, was a hot button point for him. Because if Thor is just a misplaced nuke, if Banner is just a misplaced nuke, then what is Steve? What is Tony? What are the rest of them? Weapons, not people. Commodities.
And yet, I see Tony's side as well. If I were an average citizen or a government official anywhere in the world, the idea of people with seemingly unlimited resources and power and abilities would be extremely frightening. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Just because we the viewer know that Steve is a good guy and Vision is a good guy and Clint is a good guy does not mean Average Jane and Joe can trust that. Plus, Steve's insistence that the Avengers, and he in particular, are the moral compass is, frankly, bullshit. Steve has the luxury of never being possessed or mind controlled and never making the wrong decision; he's just one uninterrupted and glorious lifetime of loyalty and courage and doing the right thing. Yet he's one intimate adventure with Loki's spear away from betraying everything he believes in. Tony knows that he's just one ego-trip away from destroying the world because that almost happened last movie. The Avengers shouldn't be allowed to operate with impunity.
I felt really badly for Tony in this movie because it's really about the dissolution of his family. He lost his parents when he was young (rock on the bb!RDJ CGI). He's lost Pepper, and now he's lost the family he so painstakingly built. MCU Tony and Steve are apparently more antagonistic than they are in the comics; they've never been BFF onscreen. So I loved it when Tony said that he wants to punch Cap in his perfect teeth sometimes but he also wants him to stay. Tony and Steve don't always get along, but Steve matters to Tony. They're family. A very important member of his family, Rhodey, is also injured in the movie, and Tony feels a great deal of guilt for that even though Rhodey doesn't blame him.
I think the villain in this movie is the most diabolical of all the villains we've seen so far because he doesn't want to rule the world, he doesn't want power or wealth. He wants vengeance. He wants the impossible: he wants to hurt the people who hurt him enough to make up for the loss of his family. And when he turns the Avengers against each other, and it's so heart wrenching to watch. That's why I find the theme of vengeance, both being consumed by it and deliberately turning away from it, so compelling. Black Panther's choice not to be consumed by his need for revenge was one of the best moments of the movie for me.
I have a theory about why Tony brings Spidey (the most painfully young Spidey we've seen onscreen so far, too) to the fight. (And I will refrain from mentioning how sad I am that America did not take to Andrew Garfield as Spidey because he was my platonic ideal of Spider Man.) None of them really want to hurt each other. Clint and Natasha are fighting, but they're not going to kill each other; that's clear. Sam and Rhodey are on opposite sides, but the second Sam realizes Rhodey is hit, he hightails it over there to try and catch him. The stakes are high, and they're doing damage, but nobody wants to kill anybody except Black Panther. I think Tony brings Spidey in as a legitimate player but also as a kind of reality check: Hey, I brought a kid! Please, remember how we don't want to kill each other!
I liked Bucky and Steve's relationship in the movie. I like that Bucky clearly wasn't drooling and needing Steve to feed him applesauce or referring to himself in third person as The Asset. Bucky's doing his thing and living a life and he's a bit fuzzy on the details but he doesn't need a higher level of care than my three year old. I love that the two of them are it for each other; to the end of the line, indeed. And I think Bucky's decision to go on ice was for the best. He knows who he is now; he knows how precarious his control over himself is (because vengeful dudes are assholes), and he doesn't want to hurt anyone else.
In random notes of glee, I loved every second of Ant Man and Spidey's battle prattle. Natasha was exquisitely beautiful the entire movie as was Wanda. Vision's obvious crush on Wanda was awesome. Everything about Black Panther rocked (awesome costume). Natasha letting Steve and Bucky leave was awesome. Sam is kinda becoming my favorite.
I miss Pepper. I miss Bruce. I miss Jane and Darcy and Thor. And Coulson (surely the ball's gotta drop on that soon, yes?). But this was an excellent, excellent movie.
Here's the fic I want to read: (I don't really think this is in character for them, but I want to read it anyway.) When handed the Accords, the Avengers as a unit say, "Okey dokey. We're off to Asgard. Y'all handle this shit." And maybe Tony gives a speech about how there's eight other realms to defend, and they go take care of business elsewhere for a few years and leave Earth to defend herself. And maybe Earth begs them back, maybe not. IDK Just a hankering. Lemme know if you see anything like that.
no subject
Date: 2016-05-16 01:48 pm (UTC)On a related note, I've seen some interesting thoughts that one of the continuing themes running throughout the MCU is superheroes and the scramble by the existing powers that be to maintain top dog status.
Iron Man - first modern hero that publicly rejects the authority of the powers that be.
Iron Man 2 - various governments try to break Tony's monopoly on powered armour. Failure.
Incredible Hulk - rather than leave Banner to his own peaceful devices, the US Army pursues him in an effort to restrict his power as a free agent, and also so they can replicate it safely under their control. Failure.
Thor - The powers that be realise that there is a greater universe out there, with even more things that they don't control.
Avengers - Which leads to the attempted creation of Phase 2 weaponry using the Tesseract, which goes badly wrong. Worse, the Avengers are now popular heroes, limiting how much the powers that be can publicly move against them.
Captain America: The Winter Soldier - So they create the orbital helicarriers instead. And note that these are focussed towards the planet, rather than away, which would make them an excellent weapon to dispose of any troublesome powered individuals. But it goes wrong. SHIELD - the only existing main counter to powered individuals that the powers that be have - is destroyed, and Black Widow (amongst others) publicly flaunts the fact that the powers that be can't touch the Avengers.
Avengers: Age of Ultron - And then Sokovia happens. In the aftermath of this disaster, the Avengers' image is tarnished, finally allowing the powers that be the chance to start moving against them. Note that - given the size of the Accords - they must have had them prepared before Lagos. There is no way that sizeable book was assembled in three days.
Edit: I will admit I have a certain urge to write a fic wherein Wanda travels across the world after Civil War, using her powers to do random acts of good whereever she goes. It's not the wise choice, exposing herself, leaving the protection of the others, but she can't remain locked up again, another prisoner, however well meaning her jailors. And what use are her powers if she make some lives better with them, after all they've cost?
Possibly of a form where I weave between the news stories that she leaves behind her and small incidents as she experiences them. (And maybe have some femslash in there, maybe not.)
no subject
Date: 2016-05-16 11:49 pm (UTC)Ah. Okay. I think I see what the disconnect for me was. *Ross and his ilk* think she's dangerous and want her under lock and key; Vision and Tony don't want him to imprison her and so undertake the duty themselves. Maybe when Vision says his line about them fearing her if she leaves he means that if she does, Ross will control the narrative about her, paint her as a villain and leave her unable to counter his claims.
OMG I have to watch this again.